Posts by under the radar

31

Bible student with 8 kids turns down marriage proposal?

by QuestioningEverything in

jw
friends

a woman who is studying/attending the kh where my mom goes has 8 kids.

the oldest is 15y and the baby is only 7 weeks old.

after studying for some time, she decided it would be morally right for her and the kids father to get married.

under the radar

For what it's worth, I completely agree with garyneal's comment. If people knew they would be held responsible for providing for their own children, maybe they would be a little more careful about strewing their DNA around the landscape so willy-nilly. I believe birth control should be easily and plentifully available to all, and its use should be encouraged and promoted. The government should get out of the welfare business and let local charities and family members take up the slack.

Benjamin Franklin was always opposed to establishing any kind of government dole because he feared it would create "a dependency." History has shown he was absolutely right. We've all read of families with multiple generations of welfare recipients who keep popping out more babies because they don't have to worry about feeding or clothing them. The rest of us have to! Generally speaking, it's the most ignorant uneducated crime-prone slackers of the community who abuse welfare the most.

Public assistance can be a wonderful thing when it's used as originally intended... as a temporary stop-gap "emergency" measure to help those in trouble due to no fault of their own get back on their feet. There's absolutely nothing wrong with accepting welfare as a last resort when it's needed to help one survive life's little surprises and one tries to get off it as soon as possible. But no one should feel "entitled" to intentionally maneuver their circumstances to qualify for welfare and stay on it indefinitely. One egregious example would be the polygamous "outlaw" Mormons who take pride in "bleeding the beast" by having as many children as they can so they can suck more and more off the welfare system. That's disgusting and shouldn't be allowed. Eventually, there will have to be a crackdown on those who intentionally abuse the public's generosity and compassion.

There should be a social stigma attached to being on welfare intentionally, by one's own design, or staying on it one second longer than necessary. Personal responsibility and self reliance should be encouraged and rewarded.

Of course, we don't know if the woman this thread is about will wind up on welfare. But the principle stands: NO ONE should be allowed to create their own dependency for their own purposes. "Have all the kids you want, but don't expect me to feed them."

31

Bible student with 8 kids turns down marriage proposal?

by QuestioningEverything in

jw
friends

a woman who is studying/attending the kh where my mom goes has 8 kids.

the oldest is 15y and the baby is only 7 weeks old.

after studying for some time, she decided it would be morally right for her and the kids father to get married.

under the radar

That's got to be one of the craziest things I've ever heard! And after growing up as a Witness™, that's saying a lot.

I have to think that in most congregations, she would have been encouraged to marry the man, if only to remove the stigma of illegitimacy from her kids. And of course, if he was supporting her and helping her get the kids to the meetings, so much the better. I wonder whose idiotic idea it was to remove a "stumbling block" before any problems ever arose. Hmmm....

Regardless of her reasons, I believe she should be absolutely prohibited from receiving ANY kind of public assistance (welfare, child care, etc.) for those kids. She's intentionally throwing away the only help and support she's truly entitled to. Kudos to the man if he still wants to support her and the kids, but I wouldn't blame him for only doing the minimum the law requires. She appears to have rejected him solely on the grounds of his not accepting HER new beliefs for himself. She is putting the kids at risk, depriving them of an apparently loving father, and disrupting their lives... all in the name of (ugh!) religion! Such nonsense. Maybe if she now had to support those kids all on her own, without any outside assistance at all, she would wake up and see how utterly stupid her actions were. Hopefully, maybe someone with a smidgeon of good sense in the congregation will nudge her to reconsider before it's too late.

People can have all the kids they want, but I (and all the other taxpayers) should NOT be on the hook to feed, clothe, (attempt to) educate, and otherwise support them. That's the parents' job. Abortion is a very touchy subject, but I do believe that birth control in all its many forms should be freely and easily available to all. And if people knew for a certainty that any kids they had would be THEIR responsibility, not anyone else's, it would go a long way towards cutting back on the cavalier way some pop out babies with no concern for how they're going to feed them and take care of them. I know personal responsibility has pretty much gone out the window, but I am disgusted with people who repeatedly have children that others have to care for. And I'm definitely including irresponsible fathers in this, too. I say, "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."

79

Finished Ex-Jehovah's Witness Survey (Please fill out for help with project)...

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

hey everyone!.

) did you feel the religion was a cult before leaving?:.

) do you feel the religion is a cult now after leaving?:.

under the radar

Ex-Jehovah's Witness Survey

General

A.) Name: Mark

B.) Gender: Male

C.) Age: 56-60

Questions:

1.) How were you introduced to Jehovah's Witnesses: Parents/Grandparents/Relatives were in before you were born and taught you

2.) How did you leave the religion: Stopped attending all at once

3.) What Age did you leave? 45-50

4.) Were you Baptized? Yes

5.) What General reason did you leave the religion: Didn't believe the teachings, not allowed to question the teachings, disagreed with stance on social issues, didn't agree with things said in the magazines or on the platform.

6.) How did you feel about the doctrine before leaving: Believed there were more things wrong than right

7.) Did your feelings about the doctrine effect the way you left? Yes

8.) If you were disfellowshipped for sin, did your feelings on the doctrine effect you sinning in the first place? N/A

9.) Did you feel the religion was a cult before leaving? I saw many similarities between the religion and a cult

10.) Did you research the religion's teachings after leaving? Yes

11.) What are your feelings on the doctrine of the religion since leaving? The religion has a problem with nearly every teaching

12.) How do you feel about the organization since leaving? They are no different than any other religion they have good and bad

13.) How do you feel about the people since leaving?: They are good people with a few bad apples

14.) Do you feel the religion is a cult now after leaving?: They have most of the qualities of a cult

15.) What is your opinion on the intelligence of those still in the Organization? : They're intelligent but purposely deny facts for their religion

16.) Are you happier now that you're gone? I think I'm much happier now that I'm gone

17.) Do you feel that other than the fact you left the Jehovah's Witnesses that they would agree with how you live your life? I do a few things they would not agree with

18.) If a Jehovah's Witness approaches you to discuss their religion you're more than likely do the following: Tell them I was raised a Jehovah's Witness and feel they're wrong

19.) Would you consider returning? When hell freezes over

20.) How do you feel about discussing your time as a Jehovah's Witness?: It's part of me I'll discuss it if it comes up

40

Where is the best place in the world to live?

by highdose in

jw
friends

could be just a whim, but highdoses feet are feeling itchy today.

i'm young, unattached was thinking about upping sticks again maybe.. .

can i get any recomendations from anyone?.

under the radar

Well, if you're considering any place in the United States, I'd have to say give anywhere in New Hampshire a look. Great state, no income OR sales taxes (except on hotel stays, restaurant meals, etc.), beautiful both summer and winter, lots of sports, etc. Nashua has been voted America's Best City to Live In more than once. Manchester is bigger, but still feels like a small town. Has all the modern conveniences, including colleges, a major airport nearby, extensive shopping, etc. I love it here!

112

what is your job ?i was wondering how varied our different jobs are !

by looloo in

i am a support worker for adults with profound disabilities and some with autism and i love caring for people ..

under the radar

Airline pilot.

29

Free load of Watchtower books (tons!), must pick up

by drew sagan in

jw
friends

i've been thinking about getting rid of these books for a long time.

i have bound volumes starting with 1950s up through the early 2000's (not complete, but probably about 35-40 volumes).

i also have about 50-70+ books, including some from the 1950's (let god be true & others).

under the radar

Mouthy,

Please check for a PM.

Thanks!

67

Did You Exit the Witnesses Due to Injustices / Difference with Doctrine-Both?

by flipper in

jw
friends

many of us leave due to injustices committed inside the organization.

i did initially.

i had doubts about some doctrines for years - but not until after leaving the witnesses was i free to be able to confirm my suspicions and see that yes, i did have valid reasons to have doubts all those years .

under the radar

Although I've read many heart-wrenching accounts of abuse and injustice on this site, I have to say that I was never personally mistreated by any Witness.

My problem with the Society and the Truth™ is the required acceptance of whatever the belief du jour is. Regardless of what your own education, experience, and reasoning tells you, regardless of what "the Spirit" leads you to see (if you believe in such a thing), regardless of whether the New Light™ passes the "sniff test" or not... you MUST accept, believe, and promulgate whatever the "present Truth™" is. It doesn't matter what your own conscience tells you or what you know in your heart to be true.

It is the forced, artificial lockstep unity that I find most objectionable. Absolutely no room for outside research or thinking for oneself. "Independent thinking" is demonized. Never mind that what is required today might have been apostasy yesterday, and may be tomorrow. What was required yesterday, what some even died to comply with, is now a "conscience matter." To teach earlier beliefs, which were required before, would now be apostasy. Unless, of course, they have been reinstated as the Truth™ again. (See the "generation" merry-go-round.)

I don't really care about their errors in doctrine, interpretation, or prophecy. I believe that's all fantasy, myth, and superstition anyway. Again, my main issue is that you MUST accept whatever they're teaching today, never mind that it was something different yesterday and may be changed again tomorrow.

Another major issue is their legalistic, authoritarian approach to maintaining control over almost every aspect of their victims' adherents' lives. Everything from the bedroom to the workplace is regulated. And their ridiculous approach to the "blood issue" is unfathomable. Inconsistent, confusing, and capricious are the kindest words I can use to describe it. And yet "good Witnesses" are expected to be ready to die before accepting whatever components or "fractions" the Slave™ says are not allowed. Never mind that there is no logic apparent in what parts are approved and what parts banned, or that the list itself has been repeatedly revised. I have no doubt that many have died "unnecessarily," even by Witness standards, but "at least they died doing what they thought was right. It was really a conscience matter anyway. And now they're practically guaranteed a resurrection." I have actually heard words similar to that used to "comfort" loved ones left behind. All I can say is, when you have to have a team of elders armed with two thick binders to interpret and enforce a couple of statements taken out of context from a 2000-3500 year old book, it is hardly a conscience matter.

And now they're tightening the noose by repeated articles stressing the need to obey the Slave™ even if the instructions seem unnecessary, unreasonable, or even dangerous. A recent article even said that no one should "challenge or question the channel Jehovah God is using in this time of the end." What??? Now they even want to be above questioning, much less challenging. That's the height of presumptuousness and arrogance!

So my reason for disassociating myself from any pretense of being a Witness has nothing to do with doctrinal errors, failed prophecies, or personal mistreatment. It is entirely about their audacious claim to be God's exclusive "channel," deserving and demanding unquestioning obedience and acceptance of whatever their latest pronouncement from on high may be. Their authoritarian and legalistic approach to controlling their members only further reveals them for the charlatans they are.

20

The show must go on..

by outofthebox in

jw
friends

i was reading in the spanish forum (http://www.extj.com/foro/showthread.php?t=15396) that an old sister died from a heart atack during the memorial, but that didn't stop the ritual.

i remember a lonley very sick sister calling for help to the kh during an emergency, and the elders told her, they were busy in an elder's meeting.

she almost died and was rushed into the hospital by 'worldy' people.

under the radar

Hey truman :

Did the incident you mention by any chance happen in Nesbit, MS sometime in the late 80's or early 90's? I don't remember when, but the exact same thing happened one Sunday when I was there. As it happened, the speaker's fleshly brother was the one who stepped up and finished the talk from the outline. Did a pretty good job, too.

In this case, however, the sick one DID get attention and was treated with loving concern by several elders and others. And his brother, who finished the talk for him, is actually very nice and humble and unassuming. Not one to put on airs at all. I know there are plenty of "showboats" among the dubs, and I have seen plenty of cases of callousness and lack of concern for others, especially for those of the "lower" classes. But in this specific incident, everything was as it should have been.

Just goes to show that even though the Organization is legalistic cult seeking to contol even the minutiae of its subjects' lives , individual Witnesses can be as sincere, thoughtful, and loving as anyone else. Even the all-powerful Borg can't stomp out the decency in every single one...

15

First Ever JW to attend ETON College. Boy's father steps down as MS.

by ThomasCovenant in

jw
friends

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education-news/2009/09/03/winning-a-scholarship-to-eton-91466-24595339/.

eton college is possibly the most famous public school in the world and they have recently accepted their first ever jehovah's witness.

the link above is a local news item.. i am reliably informed that the boy's father 'stepped down' from his 'position' of ministerial servant as some in the local congregation were not too happy with the example being set.. .

under the radar

Thanks, Billy. That was exactly the thread I was thinking of. As a matter of fact, a copy of the confidential outline (in English) would be just as good as a letter. It would have to be a copy of a CO's original, genuine outline in English for my brother-in-law to (maybe) accept it. He says no such thing was ever discussed in elders' meetings with the CO. I wonder if it was just a regional thing...

15

First Ever JW to attend ETON College. Boy's father steps down as MS.

by ThomasCovenant in

jw
friends

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education-news/2009/09/03/winning-a-scholarship-to-eton-91466-24595339/.

eton college is possibly the most famous public school in the world and they have recently accepted their first ever jehovah's witness.

the link above is a local news item.. i am reliably informed that the boy's father 'stepped down' from his 'position' of ministerial servant as some in the local congregation were not too happy with the example being set.. .

under the radar

If anyone has a copy of that letter that zarco was talking about, I'd sure appreciate your letting me know. I asked my brother-in-law (a life-long Witness and currently the COBOE of his congregation) about it and he said he never heard of such a letter and did not believe it ever existed. They had just had a CO visit when I heard about the letter on JWN, so I thought for sure it would come up on the next go-around. He's had at least 3 Circuit Overseer visits since then and still denies it.

There was a Spanish version (with translation) on this site, but I never did see an English version. If I could present him with one, I believe I'd score valuable points and maybe get to show him other things I have told him about but he couldn't believe. By the way, he is absolutely honest and if he says he didn't see or hear about such a letter, I believe him. If he had seen it but been "sworn to secrecy," he would have just simply said he couldn't discuss it. He would NOT have denied that it existed.